Hi guys.
I was originally thikning of upgrading to a 1Ds MK II but to be realistic about it, it's too much money to spend on something i do for a hobby.
So I'm now thinking about the 5D.
But the question is should i spend the money - somewhere around £1500 on one when i already have a perfectly good 20D. I have L series glass except for my EF-S 10-22 which i know will not fit the 5D. So I'm also kinda thinking that i mightkeep the 20D as a back up for wide angles.
The 5D has an extra 4-5mp and a full frame sensor so is the jump in quality big enough to justify me buying one?
what do you all think?
thanks
David
Anyone want to buy a 20D and/or a 10-22mm lens?
:D
I'll be selling both within the next week or so once the 5D arrives.
It all depends on how important it is to you. It's definitely a worthy upgrade, imho.
It's your money. I would sink it in glass and printers.
LWW
This is my first post on this nice Forum.
Hi there,
... How are you hope you are fine, OK really would you like to take my advice take the ( Canon EOS 1Ds MK II ) and save the Canon EOS 20D with you, AND You can use the lens for 20D to the 1Ds MK II.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0409/canon1dsmkii-big-001.jpg (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0409/canon1dsmkii-big.jpg)
Canon EOS 1Ds MK II option's (( £5,999 (UK), $7,999 (US) ))
We are talking about somthing huge.
01. Rus-16.4 megapixels
02. WOoOoOW 45 AF FOCUS AREA
03. Full Frame that means 10mm is still 10mm not the same of " Canon EOS 20D " 10mm means 16mm big DIFFERENT - but there is problem with the full frame it's gives a noise on the picture ask the people who's using " Canon EOS 5D + Canon EOS 1Ds Mark II " and they will tell you.
04. 0.3 second start up and 4fps performance.
06. Digital Photo Professional v1.5 RAW processing s/ware with support for sRGB, Adobe RGB and wide gamut RGB colour spaces plus various European, North American and Japanese standard CMYK separation simulations.
07. Hi-Speed FireWire, & Video out i/face for complete connectivity.
08. Dual high performance SD and CF/CF-II card slots (supports cards greater than 2GB).
09. Complete compatibility to all EF lenses & EX-series Speedlites.
10. 2.0” LCD screen with 230,000 pixels, 1.5-10x playback zoom.
11. Simultaneous RAW & JPEG shooting.
12. Battery life – approximately 1200 shots @ 20C, 800 at 0C – in accordance with CIPA testing standards.
----- ----- -----
On the last, it's back to you it's your money, think well and take what you trust for your future for your hoppies and for your work.
Regards
---- ---- ----
Sultan AlZaabi
I don't see why this is so hard to understand. How can they be the same, when one shows less of the field of view. *pulling my hair out here* :p
the problem is that you keep saying it is a crop factor of 1.6x, while the site you posted said using a 25mm focal length on the camera results in a 37mm equivalent on a 35mm camera (thats 1.5x, 1.6 would be 40)
Mihai said a 600mm full framed and a 400mm on a 30D (1.5x factor=600), would there be a difference?
hope this clears things up.
I will leaveit to you like this... I have the 5D... and currently selling my 20D which was my backup... I would keep the 20D for sure, and if you want a camera that shoots really incredible pics... the 5D certainly fits the bill... it amazes me still every day with its clarity...
The same picture on the 30D will be cropped, because of the smaller sensor, to an equivalent field of view from a 640mm lens.
Equivalent field of view to the 640 but with the focal range of a 400mm??
i thought the point of the EF-S lenses was to ensure that with the crop factor you would still get the stated focal length without multiplying by the factor. i always assumed that my 10-22 was actually 10-22 because it was EF-S and not EF.
The crop factor/focal length is another topic though - it seems that the 5D produces amazing images.
As for MF or LF - it's a side issue aswell - should i upgrade from my 20D?
the feeling I'm getting is that it would be worth it.
I used to think that too, but it's not true, 10mm is 10mm on an EF-S lense.
i've always thought it was silly to buy expensive cameras as a hobbyist, but that might just be me. I usually go by this...'if you can make immediate profits or it can HELP you make immediate profits more easily, then it is worth a buy'. if that doesnt apply it gets a littel tougher. if you print bigger, yes, the 5d will do a better job. how often do you print? I know clients arent quite as particular about printing quality as some of us 'photo people' are, so they might still be very pleased with 20d images. i know many pros still use nikon's d2h, d1x, and 1d cameras, each of which has less than 5 megapixels. If you are getting complaints then yes, it is time to upgrade. if not, and you are fairly pleased with what you have now, there really is no need to.
5D will last you 2-3 years. It means depreciation of about a 1000 in the first year and 500 every successive year.
If you're gonna make a more than 3 grand on large prints, then sure - get the thing.
If it's just a few prints, you're end up losing a couple hundred bucks on every print.
Be accountable for your money. (accounting... ta-bump ;) ) funny.
I used to think that too, but it's not true, 10mm is 10mm on an EF-S lense.
i've always thought it was silly to buy expensive cameras as a hobbyist, but that might just be me. I usually go by this...'if you can make immediate profits or it can HELP you make immediate profits more easily, then it is worth a buy'. if that doesnt apply it gets a littel tougher. if you print bigger, yes, the 5d will do a better job. how often do you print? I know clients arent quite as particular about printing quality as some of us 'photo people' are, so they might still be very pleased with 20d images. i know many pros still use nikon's d2h, d1x, and 1d cameras, each of which has less than 5 megapixels. If you are getting complaints then yes, it is time to upgrade. if not, and you are fairly pleased with what you have now, there really is no need to.
most of the prints I've sold have been 30x20 inches. panoramics are 30x10inches. So using your logic i should go for it. prints that size would be improved and while i've not received any complaints from buyers (quite the opposite actually) it may mean i can sell images to more exacting places for calendars etc.
i think i'll end up getting one!!!
What would sell it to me is more the extra width of the full-frame sensor, and most importantly, easier composition/view through the viewfinder... Whether that's worth £1,500 - a 20D is only a question you can answer!
Rob
Well guys.....I've gone and done it.
I bought a 5D and it should be delivered tomorrow (Wednesday) all being well.
Looking forward to full frame shots and a few large prints!!
we're expecting a full report! :)
A full report???..hehe
Upgrade S5 vs. Buy Quality DSLR for the Long Distance Backpacker ::
4 posts - Last post: Dec 22, 2008I have designated about $600 to 1000 for my gear and camera upgrades. I should upgrade my Canon S5 IS or buy a companion DSLR camera?
http://forum.digitalcamerareview.com/showthread.php?p=27817HOME |
i'll post a couple of images and you can check my website once i've taken a few!
Just a couple of thoughts:
A backup is just that: a backup. It generally doesn't get used. It's there in case you have a failure in the main body. When I shot film, I had two of the same body (EOS5 as main, and A2e as backup, basically the same thing). I never used the A2e, but I had it with me in case the EOS5 died durring a shoot. If you are photographing as a hobby, go ahead and sell the 20D. If you are doing it as a business, I would keep it as a backup, even if you never use it.
When you consider if you need new equipment and are beyond the limits of what you are using, it's not about if you are using every feature. What matters is if any aspect of the equipment no longer meets your needs. In your case, you felt that the 20D's resolution wasn't meeting your requirements, so that means that your needs have gone beyond your equipment.
Hope you enjoy the 5D!
we're expecting a full report! :)
Don't know if i should thank you guys- it may mean i have to purchase a 17-40 lens with the 5D!!!!
A 400mm lens on a 1.5x crop factor sensor becomes a 400mm lens with a smaller field of view, not a longer focal length with greater magnification.
Look at this example by Fred: http://www.millhouse.nl/graphics/0500137cropfactor.jpg
Rob, enlighten me please. Assume I have a 10Mpixels 5D that is full frame with a 600mm lens and that I have a 10Mpixels 30D with a 400mm lens.
I take the same picture with both of them. Apart from the noise (which is better for the 5D), can you tell them apart in any way? I mean, does it make any difference?
Thanks,
Mihai
realise the 17-40 is a better lens. the 10-22 is pretty good but not outstanding.
Looks like all things considered the best thing would be to sell the 20D and 10-22 lens nad use the 5D for everything. The lens lengths are the same but the full frame and higher res makes it a better option.
Like Rob i'd have the 1Ds MK II any day but since i need to pay for it, it kinda puts me off!!:lol:
I think i'll get the 5D and maybe throw in a 17-40 too. Might even treat myself and get a 430EX flash gun!!
anyone want to buy a 20D with 10-22mm lens???..................
:)
I used to look at it this way also... but it isnt true... your CROP gives you the effect of being 16mm... but it is ideally still a 10mm lens. The only thing that really is effected is the field of view...
I understand that it is a crop factor, and not a mulitplication factor, but however you look at it, you are only getting 16mm, and not 10mm. There is no point in looking at it like 10mm, when you are not getting 10mm. If he puts a 10mm lens on a 5D, he's not going to get the same look that he's used to with a 10mm on a 20D.
I will just say this... because this thread has gotten out of hand with the crop factor BS (as they usually do)... for anyone that has actually used the 5D vs. the people that havent... once you DO use the 5D your 20D wont get my use past then... I actually was always planning on keeping my 20D for a backup to either my 1D Mark II or 5D (which ever I was using at the time) but its sold... and gone... it didnt go out in the field since I bought the 5D.... FWIW
The 10mm focal length you currently have is really 16mm on your 20D. The Canon 16-35 is abotu $1400 new. I'd bet you could get close to that from selling a 20D and that lens.
I used to look at it this way also... but it isnt true... your CROP gives you the effect of being 16mm... but it is ideally still a 10mm lens. The only thing that really is effected is the field of view...
I currently shoot with a 1D Mark II and a 5D...I would have to say in the quality aspect... that if its something like scenery, or a genre of photography that doesnt require fast shutter or fast multi shutter the 5D wins hands down in quality of shot...even against the 1D Mark II... When I am out shooting trains (my main hobby shoot) I two-gun it... usually with the 1D Mark II/100-400L or 70-200L and the 5D/24-70L... and I will only put away the 5D first if the weather starts getting bad... and thats it...
The kit lens that comes with Canon Digitals, the 18-55mm, is an EF-S lens, and it is made to cover the 28-80mm standard kit lens range. The 17-85m lens replaces the 28-135mm. The 10-22 is meant to cover the 16-35mm range.
Yes, 10mm is 10mm. The lens focal length is measured from the back of the lens to the film plane. That's not in question. What effective focal length, or Field of View it gives you, is what we are talking about. It's a 10mm lens, that gives you the same field of view as a 16mm lens does, on a full frame camera, or 35mm camera.
From Luminous Landscape:
Since the first APS-C sized imagers appeared in DSLRs a few years ago, photographers have struggled with not having lenses which can provide super-wide angle coverage. With a 1.6X factor, (on Canon DSLRs, at least), a 16mm focal length, like that of Canon's 16-35mm zoom, becomes just 25mm at the wide end.
Recently a number of even wider-angle lenses have become available, and the latest of this batch, at least for owners of the Canon 20D and Rebel, is the recently announced Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM. This lens is the equivalent on a reduced frame camera of a 16-35mm in full-frame terms.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/Canon-10-22mm-test.shtml
I can see exactly what you're getting at but why would i sell my 10-22 and spend more to get a 17-40 when i won't extend my focal range?
Because the 17-40 is a better lens than the 10-22. And why not use the extra resolution, and big beautiful sensor of the 5D for everything. I would, even for telephoto. You can crop a 5D raw file and still probably have as good as, or a better picture than from the 20D. The sensor is 1.2x bigger.
hah! i'll give 60!
While offers of 50 and 60 bucks are tempting.....I'm going to try to hold out for a bit more!!!
:D
Have you reached the limits of your equipment?
Heh. Thanks, but I have the 10D and pretty happy with it. When I upgrade, it will be far down the road. If I suddenly got the money, I'd pick the 5D also.
Congrats.
the problem is that you keep saying it is a crop factor of 1.6x, while the site you posted said using a 25mm focal length on the camera results in a 37mm equivalent on a 35mm camera (thats 1.5x, 1.6 would be 40)
Mihai said a 600mm full framed and a 400mm on a 30D (1.5x factor=600), would there be a difference?
hope this clears things up.
The site is discussing Nikon cameras, so 1.5 is correct, as it states a little bit further down the page.
I know some people have gotten annoyed at this debate, but I've actually found it quite informative. Thanks guys :)
The real thing I'm after is increase in picture quality at large image size.
If picture quality at large print sizes is most important then your best bang for the buck is medium format film or large format film. Any format 6x7cm and larger will blow away 12 mp for large prints, and you can get it for a fraction of the cost of a 5D. The 5D is a really nice camera though.
your 24mm will be as wide as the 15mm mark on your 10-22 when using your 20d. if that's not wide enough for you, i'd recommend selling the 10-22 and buying a 17-40. Typically people that own a 20d and a 5d use the 5d for wide stuff and short telephoto and the 20d for longer telephotos.
Exactly! Keeping the 20D for wide angles is just wrong! It should be keept for telephoto. That's where a 400mm becomes a 600mm. Match that with the 5D (for the same money)!
If you're not pressed, I'd wait for a better full size sensor camera. In less than a year it should be here. To be honest I'm was surprised when I saw Canon comming up with the Rebel XTi. I think that it killed a lot of 30D sales.
Then now have that market segment pretty well covered up (too well IMO), my guess it that they'll go for the full frame next.
M.
I'll have your 10-22 possibly.... PM me.
Rob
Just a couple of thoughts:
A backup is just that: a backup. It generally doesn't get used. It's there in case you have a failure in the main body. When I shot film, I had two of the same body (EOS5 as main, and A2e as backup, basically the same thing). I never used the A2e, but I had it with me in case the EOS5 died durring a shoot. If you are photographing as a hobby, go ahead and sell the 20D. If you are doing it as a business, I would keep it as a backup, even if you never use it.
When you consider if you need new equipment and are beyond the limits of what you are using, it's not about if you are using every feature. What matters is if any aspect of the equipment no longer meets your needs. In your case, you felt that the 20D's resolution wasn't meeting your requirements, so that means that your needs have gone beyond your equipment.
Hope you enjoy the 5D!
Mark - As you can see - i've decided to sell the 20D and 10-22mm lens. interested?? :D
your 24mm will be as wide as the 15mm mark on your 10-22 when using your 20d. if that's not wide enough for you, i'd recommend selling the 10-22 and buying a 17-40. Typically people that own a 20d and a 5d use the 5d for wide stuff and short telephoto and the 20d for longer telephotos.
your 24mm will be as wide as the 15mm mark on your 10-22 when using your 20d. if that's not wide enough for you, i'd recommend selling the 10-22 and buying a 17-40. Typically people that own a 20d and a 5d use the 5d for wide stuff and short telephoto and the 20d for longer telephotos.
Wouldn't i be better keeping the 20D and 10-22 for wide angle and the 20D for the long tele shots too?
The 5D would therefore cover most of my shots since i almost always use my 24-70 lens.
Buying a 17-40 will be more expensive than what the 10-22 is worth and since the focal length is the same i'd pretty much be throwing money away.
I can see exactly what you're getting at but why would i sell my 10-22 and spend more to get a 17-40 when i won't extend my focal range? Ok i can use the 5D for wide angles but would it be worth the extra outlay if my 20D can deal with that just now??
I don't see why this is so hard to understand. How can they be the same, when one shows less of the field of view. *pulling my hair out here* :p
Before you finish pulling all the hair out, perhaps you would take the time to see the numbers I posted.
I believe that a pic taken with a 50mm on a APC sensor would have the same field of view (pulling some more hair?) as an 80mm on a full sensor (assuming a 1.6 crop factor like for Canon). Is this not correct?
Same for the 400mm and the 600mm (assuming a crop factor of 1.5 like for Nikon).
So?
M.
Rob, enlighten me please. Assume I have a 10Mpixels 5D that is full frame with a 600mm lens and that I have a 10Mpixels 30D with a 400mm lens.
I take the same picture with both of them. Apart from the noise (which is better for the 5D), can you tell them apart in any way? I mean, does it make any difference?
Thanks,
Mihai
The same picture on the 30D will be cropped, because of the smaller sensor, to an equivalent field of view from a 640mm lens.
I know it doesn't change the size of the sensor or change the 1.6x factor but i thought that because the EF-S lenses were made specifically for cameras with a 1.6x factor, the lens was made to accommodate this and 10mm was actually 10mm and not 16mm.
a 10mm lens IS a 10mm lens, and a 16mm lens IS a 16mm lens... a 10mm is never actually a 16mm... its just a cropped picture...
Taken from the DPReview Site:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=18749568
6. EF-S lenses
Canon EF-S series lenses are not suitable for use on a FF35 camera. They are suitable for use on certain (but not all) 1.6x cameras (or on a camera with a smaller format that Canon might introduce, perhaps "1.7x").
The unique feature of the EF-S lens is that it is built within a different design envelope than an EF lens, in the following ways:
a. They are required to generate an image only large enough to embrace a 22.5 mm x 15.0 mm format (the so-called "image circle" issue). Canon EF lenses are required to generate an image large enough to embrace a 36 mm x 24 mm format.
b. They are permitted to have a protuberance at the rear that is greater than permitted for an EF lens. This is accommodated in EF-S compatible cameras by having a reflex mirror arrangement that allows the clearance required to accommodate that greater protuberance.
EF-S lenses are designated and marked with their focal length, just like all SLR interchangeable lenses. (Some people would say, "with their 'real' focal length". That's the only kind there is.)
With respect to those aspects of lens behavior that are determined by focal length and aperture, an EF-S lens of a certain focal length and aperture will behave, on a 1.6x camera, just as would an EF lens of that focal length and aperture on that camera.
I will just say this... because this thread has gotten out of hand with the crop factor BS (as they usually do)... for anyone that has actually used the 5D vs. the people that havent... once you DO use the 5D your 20D wont get my use past then... I actually was always planning on keeping my 20D for a backup to either my 1D Mark II or 5D (which ever I was using at the time) but its sold... and gone... it didnt go out in the field since I bought the 5D.... FWIW
Although i had thought about keeping the 20D as a back up, i suppose i always knew i'd sell it. When i went digital i decided to keep my 2 EOS500s as back up. But once i had gone digital they were never used and were gathering dust so they were sold.
I would sell the 20D once i had replaced it - combined with the 10-22mm lens it'll take about £600-700 off the price of the 5D.
I understand that it is a crop factor, and not a mulitplication factor, but however you look at it, you are only getting 16mm, and not 10mm. There is no point in looking at it like 10mm, when you are not getting 10mm. If he puts a 10mm lens on a 5D, he's not going to get the same look that he's used to with a 10mm on a 20D.
i thought the point of the EF-S lenses was to ensure that with the crop factor you would still get the stated focal length without multiplying by the factor. i always assumed that my 10-22 was actually 10-22 because it was EF-S and not EF.
The crop factor/focal length is another topic though - it seems that the 5D produces amazing images.
As for MF or LF - it's a side issue aswell - should i upgrade from my 20D?
the feeling I'm getting is that it would be worth it.
Selling the 20D and that lens probably wouldn't net me enough to buy the super wide angle lens i'd love on the 5D and almost certainly not the 10mm min focal range i currently have.
The 10mm focal length you currently have is really 16mm on your 20D. The Canon 16-35 is abotu $1400 new. I'd bet you could get close to that from selling a 20D and that lens.
have i reached the limit? if you mean do i use all the functions and want more then it's probably no. i do know how to use them all but most of the time i choose not to.
I'd rather not buy more lenses at the moment - the ones i have are as good as they come (L series) and my focal range is perfect for what i need. I also feel it's cheaper and easier for me to email my shots to a lab and they send me a print back.
The real thing I'm after is increase in picture quality at large image size. i've sold several images at 30inches by 20inches which means a lot of interpolation in CS2 from the 20D original. The quality is great at smaller sizes but i can see it starting to drop as i get towards that larger size.
Having a larger original would mean less interpolation and therefore higher quality image at the end. I also know the full size sensor will improve the quality but i don't know how much.
I don't see why this is so hard to understand. How can they be the same, when one shows less of the field of view. *pulling my hair out here* :p
camera bodies arent' that important, but in the way of bodies, canons 20d is crap compared to a 5d, if money is an issue invest in good glass, you'll still have it later when you do upgrade bodies. jerry ghionis is the only guy i personally know who uses a 5d, and he says he'd be perfectly happy if it was the only body they made anymore.
and you don't just surpass the equipment, while it helps and you may notice the difference in quality, that doesn't mean you'll be composing better etc. so don't feel like upgrading bodies is going to mean your better, it just means you spent more money.
no you're right matt. people just freak out about the crop factor thing sometimes...
darich - selling the 10-22 and 20d will definitely lessen the price of the 5d and 17-40 (the 17-40 is actually around the same price as the 10-22). the only reason to keep it would be if you did weddings or something where switching lenses was really inconvenient...or if you wanted to do sports stuff or something (i'm going to assume you understand why i said that, i sure hope a huge debate doesnt occure because of that :-P)
i know exactly what you mean. I've always managed to get by on one camera until now and since nothing has changed, one camera will be plenty for me!
As for the price of the 17-40 and 10-22 - they may be the same price but my 10-22 is used and i'd like a new 17-40 so it'll take a chunk off the price but not all.
Good thing is i already have 3 77mm polarizers so the 17-40mm lens will fit my existing filters.
Exactly! Keeping the 20D for wide angles is just wrong! It should be keept for telephoto. That's where a 400mm becomes a 600mm. Match that with the 5D (for the same money)!
If you're not pressed, I'd wait for a better full size sensor camera. In less than a year it should be here. To be honest I'm was surprised when I saw Canon comming up with the Rebel XTi. I think that it killed a lot of 30D sales.
Then now have that market segment pretty well covered up (too well IMO), my guess it that they'll go for the full frame next.
M.
A 400mm lens on a 1.5x crop factor sensor becomes a 400mm lens with a smaller field of view, not a longer focal length with greater magnification.
Look at this example by Fred: http://www.millhouse.nl/graphics/0500137cropfactor.jpg
What you get is *not* a longer lens or greater magnification, simply less field of view in the picture at exactly the same focal length.
FWIW, I think the only important things to bear in mind are the advantageous SNR of a larger sensor and the fact that AF-S lenses don't work on FF.
I'd have a 5D any day. Any day I had £££ spare for another body. Actually, I'd have a 1Ds Mk II N.... there's always the lottery eh? :lol:
Rob
I don't see why this is so hard to understand. How can they be the same, when one shows less of the field of view. *pulling my hair out here* :p
no you're right matt. people just freak out about the crop factor thing sometimes...
darich - selling the 10-22 and 20d will definitely lessen the price of the 5d and 17-40 (the 17-40 is actually around the same price as the 10-22). the only reason to keep it would be if you did weddings or something where switching lenses was really inconvenient...or if you wanted to do sports stuff or something (i'm going to assume you understand why i said that, i sure hope a huge debate doesnt occure because of that :-P)
I will leaveit to you like this... I have the 5D... and currently selling my 20D which was my backup... I would keep the 20D for sure, and if you want a camera that shoots really incredible pics... the 5D certainly fits the bill... it amazes me still every day with its clarity...
i was actually considering keeping the 20D as a back up and also because my 10-22 EF-S lens wouldn't fit the 5D.
Selling the 20D and that lens probably wouldn't net me enough to buy the super wide angle lens i'd love on the 5D and almost certainly not the 10mm min focal range i currently have.
Going by your quote it seems you think the 5D blows the 20D away in terms of quality?
Rob - the full frame sensor is a big draw for me but just how much would it improve quality if everything else was equal? I know there are a few extra megapixels but how significant is the change in sensor size?
Matt, if I read the answer in the page correctly, the answer is "Yes, the two pictures will be the same".
M.
The purpose of the EF-S lens mount is to let the lens protrude farther into the body. It allows them to make super wide angle lenses cheaper, and lighter, with fewer elements. It doesn't change the fact that the sensor is not the same size as a 35mm negative. The DSLR is based on the 35mm format in order for it to use normal 35mm lenses. You can't switch formats mid stream.
I realize this whole crop factor is another issue, but I think it's one to consider when buying a full frame camera. It's really one of the major perks to getting the 5D.
I know it doesn't change the size of the sensor or change the 1.6x factor but i thought that because the EF-S lenses were made specifically for cameras with a 1.6x factor, the lens was made to accommodate this and 10mm was actually 10mm and not 16mm.
I can give you 50 bucks for 10-22 :lmao:
hah! i'll give 60!
The same picture on the 30D will be cropped, because of the smaller sensor, to an equivalent field of view from a 640mm lens.
Matt, don't look inside the box. Just at the input (scene) and output (picture). I know that 30D crops. And that the two lenses have different focal lenghts. Just tell me if you're able to tell (apart from the noise) that the two pictures have been take with different cameras and lenses.
M.
http://www.millhouse.nl/digitalcropfactorframe.html
Camera discussions are often cluttered with personal preferences, brand loyalties and strange, but very interesting, diversions into arcane paths and byways.
Here's another one. Just for kicks, try cutting to this particular chase.
You're considering the more expensive camera because it will make better 20x30's, which you sell. The assumption is that by making better 20x30's, you will increase your sales. [If not, there's no economic reason for the purchase!] Simple accounting math then applies. In business, a purchase of 'capital' equipment is based on payout. A three year payout seems reasonable based on the evolution of digital rigs and the expectations of the customers. Consider the bottom line profit of a 20x30, the cost of the camera [Don't forget to include all of those little add-ons such as spare battery, memory card(s), lenses, etc.] and the estimated increase in sales to be gained through the purchase. It's a rough approximation, but easy to do.
The result may be enlightening.
Have you reached the limits of your equipment?there is a limit:confused:
Anyone want to buy a 20D and/or a 10-22mm lens?
:D
I'll be selling both within the next week or so once the 5D arrives.
I can give you 50 bucks for 10-22 :lmao:
I would probably upgrade if the old equipment is holding you back then why not upgrade.
i thought the point of the EF-S lenses was to ensure that with the crop factor you would still get the stated focal length without multiplying by the factor. i always assumed that my 10-22 was actually 10-22 because it was EF-S and not EF.
The crop factor/focal length is another topic though - it seems that the 5D produces amazing images.
As for MF or LF - it's a side issue aswell - should i upgrade from my 20D?
the feeling I'm getting is that it would be worth it.
The purpose of the EF-S lens mount is to let the lens protrude farther into the body. It allows them to make super wide angle lenses cheaper, and lighter, with fewer elements. It doesn't change the fact that the sensor is not the same size as a 35mm negative. The DSLR is based on the 35mm format in order for it to use normal 35mm lenses. You can't switch formats mid stream.
I realize this whole crop factor is another issue, but I think it's one to consider when buying a full frame camera. It's really one of the major perks to getting the 5D.
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should i upgrade my gear??